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from your perception i would like to know your thoughts on the pthumerians.

i am aware i could inquire the natives, and indeed i shall do just that. however, i would appreciate an unbiased viewpoint and any information you care to add from your own experiences.

i am no stranger to them necessarily but i find myself needing to know more.

i must.

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They sit atop a mountain of corpses and a ruined world and have the gall to call themselves the reigning gods and rulers of the ashes. Their perception of this might be different, but they still pass judgement as if they have the right, and they still force everything to bend to their will. They force their way onto humanity - making themselves into symbols of everything that makes up the human perception, and then wield their ignorance and alien nature as an excuse when they abuse that power horrifically, despite being too arrogant to understand the ways of the people they condemned to begin with.

I am no friend to humanity, but the fact that they're here begging for scraps like this from the same empire and in some cases the same representatives that condemned their civilization to slaughter... it's a bit pathetic.

Edited 2023-02-10 11:44 (UTC)

I try to have as little to do with the pthumerians as I can. I respect their power but it's dangerous to get mixed up with them.

But you're honestly not going to get an unbiased opinion even from Sleepers I think. Everyone's at least going to base their thoughts on what they know from before if not their experiences here.

Why you want to know so bad? Is that something you can share?

i don't trust them. they're not evil, but they're not good, either. their idea of right and wrong are really weird, and they'll definitely kill people if they decide what that person's doing is wrong

I don't care for them even a little. They're worshipped by so many here and it makes me sick. They interfere with our lives, push us and poke us and manipulate us. Influence us.

I have a hard time understanding how some people can even like them given some of what we go through here.

the way these beings live will always be unlike humanity, for better or for worse.
you would not consider them remotely beneficial or benevolent then?

They would be better off if they stopped pretending to understand humanity then. They aren't all knowing and they aren't all understanding. What gives them the right to pass judgement? To offer forgiveness? To modify our minds to be more compliant with their wishes for us?

I don't think they are malicious. Some even do more good than bad. But no, I think any benefit is merely them putting a bandage on a wound that can never be healed. The world rots due to the blood they brought with them. The reason these people are confined to this tiny city is because the Pthumerian Queen sought to conquer and assimilate humanity and used her daughter and granddaughter to do so. She's dead, but she got what she wanted.

Edited 2023-02-11 02:31 (UTC)

i would consider the opinions of sleepers to be further removed than a person that was born here
but you are correct.

i have had experiences with similar beings in the world i am from.
however these beings are far more cruel than the pthumerians if one were to truly compare them.
still, i would know their nature better, and what it means for trench's future.

the morality of beings such as these will never match one of man's.
would you consider them too deadly to cooperate with?

tis easy when there are some whose lives were far more dire until they arrived here.
i was not that far removed myself once.
but i would consider it dangerous to be too deeply associated with them.

would you think then that it would be best for those of trench to live independently of them, then? what would you change?

While I am grateful for certain boons I've received, I must admit that I still don't trust them. It seems foolhardy to trust persons or beings implicitly that lack any sense of straightforward communication. Riddles and uncertainties can only go so far. With that said, there are certainly attempts from some to assist, which can be appreciated while still keeping a distance from close association, which I think is the wisest decision.

[...]

what level of threat do you feel from these beings, erwin?

The easiest answer to this is that having others in a place of power over me is unsettling. Not in a general sense as in things like military hierarchies, but from those that consider themselves gods or rulers it rubs me the wrong way. I am certainly always ready to protect what I care for, but for now I simply feel I must mostly keep my distance and watch and catalogue things that happen. I suppose "waiting for the other shoe to drop" is a good enough phrase to express how I feel.

a fair assessment. it is my experience that beings similar to the pthumerians tend to lack a humble nature. perhaps it is only a matter of time.

what do you presume is our worst case scenario?

Theyre on a different level than us
I know theyre related to the girl somehow
But i dont know if they come from her
Or if they were what people were trying to make her

I get that, I do. I don't fault people for liking Trench. For being grateful that this place is better than what they came from. Hell, it's better than what I came from but... Does that mean we should feel indebted to these beings? Worship them like they're gods?

I certainly a good idea to compare the two.

Honestly? I don't truly think pthumerians are much different from man, just on a different scale. Some aren't good, some aren't bad. And if they don't have knowledge about something they aren't always going to do the best thing even if they mean well.

But trying to make them understand that isn't all their fault, is it?

i never met one and don't know much about them at all. i do wonder sometimes if maybe we don't understand them
it's easy to get mad at them but it might just be what they are, to meddle and stuff like that

I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, and I can't throw very far.

I'm suspicious of anything even approaching 'godlike'. Powerful magic's one thing, but this? No. I can't trust that they have our safety and sanity at heart, and I can't and won't trust them to not fuck us over.

They're an important part of this world, from what I've gathered. Like the seasons, or natural phenomena. I don't think any of the ones from this world are actively malicious. More like... like wildlife? If that makes sense. They can be altruistic, helpful, or they can lash out and hurt us. But it isn't out of a direct desire to cause us harm unless we mess with them first. At least one of them is absolutely benevolent. The Moon Presence - she came with us from the dream world. I've met her. Most of us from the dream have. ... and at least one actively hates us. But, again, she's from the dream.

I trust none of them except Moon Presence and that is because she has never had reason to show she will betray the Sleepers after the vow she made. The rest? I will never trust them no matter what they do. Some may make useful allies upon occasion but they have no true understanding of Sleepers and no desire to. We are an amusement for them, something to watch go through suffering time and again while they sit there and enjoy the show being put on for them. Mother Mercy is the worst of them all though the Reckoning is not far behind them as far as I am concerned.

no, you just have to be careful and learn about whichever pthumerian you might want to work with to understand what kinds of things might make them kill people

It's important to remember the Pthumerians aren't human, so it's not fair to hold them to human standards. The Patrons just... are. That being said, there's some I'm closer to than others. My own Patron is one of them, as is Nevermind, Remina and Madam Generosity, to name some.

They're helpful, if you ask for their help. They can be powerful allies. But they can also be powerful foes. It's a difficult line to toe.

Moon Presence is who you can trust the most. She vowed to protect all Sleepers in this world thanks to what we Sleepers who lived in Deerington did by allowing her to be reborn here.

i suppose not.

would you consider them particularly dangerous to us?

many have noted the moon presence being particularly cooperative.
do you agree with that?

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